Legislature(2021 - 2022)BARNES 124

03/23/2022 03:15 PM House LABOR & COMMERCE

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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+= HB 176 DIRECT HEALTH AGREEMENT: NOT INSURANCE TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
+= SB 143 COMMON INTEREST COMMUNITIES; LIENS TELECONFERENCED
Moved SB 143 Out of Committee
-- Public Testimony <Time Limit May Be Set> --
+= SJR 12 SOCIAL SECURITY BENEFIT REDUCTION REPEAL TELECONFERENCED
Moved SJR 12 Out of Committee
-- Public Testimony <Time Limit May Be Set> --
+ Presentation: Alaska Hire TELECONFERENCED
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
<Above Item Removed from Agenda>
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
         HB 176-DIRECT HEALTH AGREEMENT: NOT INSURANCE                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:29:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FIELDS announced  that the next order  of business would                                                               
be HOUSE  BILL NO. 176,  "An Act relating to  insurance; relating                                                               
to direct  health care agreements;  and relating to  unfair trade                                                               
practices."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FIELDS  invited Ms. Lori  Wing-Heier to outline  some of                                                               
the recommended  changes or clarifications  that the  Division of                                                               
Insurance  has  in  terms  of   consumer  protections  for  those                                                               
consumers  purchasing direct  care agreements,  with the  goal of                                                               
getting them addressed prior to the bill's next hearing.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:30:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LORI   WING-HEIER,  Director,   Division  of   Insurance,  Alaska                                                               
Department  of  Commerce,  Community,  and  Economic  Development                                                               
(DCCED), testified  that with the proper  consumer protections HB
176 would help  in Alaska's healthcare system.    She stated that                                                               
the division supports direct care  agreements and that there is a                                                               
need for them in Alaska.   Direct care agreements would help with                                                               
access to  health care, particularly for  Medicare recipients who                                                               
cannot find a primary doctor.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. WING-HEIER  advised, however, that the  division thinks there                                                               
needs to be some consumer protections.   She said the bill should                                                               
not be  able to discriminate.   As well,  if charging a  fee [the                                                               
provider should be  required to] give notice if the  fee is going                                                               
to be  increased.  In  addition, both  parties should be  able to                                                               
cancel with proper  notice and perhaps with a  nominal or minimum                                                               
termination fee.  The contract  should clearly spell out what the                                                               
consumer is  going to get  during the contract; for  example, two                                                               
check-ups annually,  a certain amount of  bloodwork, and whatever                                                               
else the doctor  wants to provide under the contract.   Ms. Wing-                                                               
Heier  further advised  that  if the  treatment  or whatever  the                                                               
consumer is receiving from the  doctor exceeds the contract, then                                                               
insurance would be available.   With proper consumer protections,                                                               
she stated,  this is a bill  worth considering and it  would help                                                               
in Alaska's healthcare system.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:32:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MCCARTY requested  that the  committee be  sent a                                                               
list of the division's suggestions.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. WING-HEIER agreed to do so.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FIELDS  added  that [the  committee],  along  with  the                                                               
sponsor, will work with Ms.  Wing-Heier on a committee substitute                                                               
(CS) that will include some  of these clarifications.  He invited                                                               
Mr.  Haley of  the  Department of  Law to  comment  on Ms.  Wing-                                                               
Heier's suggestions.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:32:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOHN HALEY,  Assistant Attorney  General, Special  Litigation and                                                               
Consumer  Protection, Civil  Division (Anchorage),  Department of                                                               
Law, clarified  he is  before the  committee to  answer questions                                                               
that  the committee  might have  regarding how  enforcement under                                                               
the  Unfair  Trade   Practices  Act  (UTPA)  would   work.    The                                                               
Department  of  Law,   he  said,  does  not   have  any  specific                                                               
recommendations as far as what  consumer protections should exist                                                               
in the law.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:33:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SPOHNHOLZ said  the committee  is interested  in adding                                                               
some consumer protections and transparency  language to the bill.                                                               
She  requested  Mr.  Haley to  discuss  how  consumer  protection                                                               
statutes are  typically structured  and what  the process  is for                                                               
consumers if  they have  a challenge  related to  unfair contract                                                               
practices and how that might be enforced in the state of Alaska.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HALEY responded  that the  Unfair Trade  Practices Act  is a                                                               
common consumer protection statute.  He  said Section 3 of HB 176                                                               
would  make  violating  the  new AS  45.45.915  an  unfair  trade                                                               
practice.   He stated that AS  45.50.471 includes a list  of [57]                                                               
enumerated violations  of the [Alaska Unfair  Trade Practices and                                                               
Consumer Protection Act].  The UTPA  has two remedies - a private                                                               
cause of action and a government cause of action.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. HALEY  explained that  in the private  cause of  action, once                                                               
something has been made an  Unfair Trade Practices Act violation,                                                               
which this draft  of HB 176 would do for  section 915, any person                                                               
who  has suffered  an  ascertainable loss  of  money or  property                                                               
could file  a lawsuit  against anyone who  has violated  the act.                                                               
It  may not  necessarily be  easy to  prove the  suffering of  an                                                               
ascertainable loss of money or  property for every type of unfair                                                               
trade practice.   But  if a  person could prove  that a  loss has                                                               
been suffered,  he or she  could file  a private cause  of action                                                               
and  would  be entitled  to  either  treble  damages or  $500  of                                                               
statutory  damages,  whichever  is   greater,  as  well  as  full                                                               
attorney's fees.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. HALEY  specified that a  government cause of action  works in                                                               
some  ways like  other  government enforcement  activity.   If  a                                                               
consumer has had an issue with  a business and believes it may be                                                               
an unfair  trade practice,  the consumer  can call  [the Consumer                                                               
Protection Unit at  the Department of Law] and  submit a consumer                                                               
complaint.  The  office typically gets about  400 actual consumer                                                               
complaints a  year, although  it receives  more calls  than that.                                                               
The office can investigate those  complaints, but with a staff of                                                               
two  attorneys and  one  investigator the  office  must pick  and                                                               
choose what to  investigate.  After an  investigation, the office                                                               
can file  a lawsuit seeking  an injunction and then  penalties of                                                               
$1,000-$5,000 per violation, plus full attorney's fees.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. HALEY  offered his understanding that  possibly the committee                                                               
or  some   legislators  may  be  considering   adding  additional                                                               
violations beyond  45.45.915, Section 2, making  more things into                                                               
consumer protection violations,  violations of the UTPA.   If the                                                               
committee is  going to do that,  he advised, it would  be best to                                                               
use similar  language to  that used  in section  915 where  it is                                                               
very clear  what obligation  a particular  person has,  what that                                                               
person shall  do and what that  person may not do.   That clarity                                                               
in  language helps  a lot  to understand  who it  is that  may be                                                               
violating the law  and what exactly that person would  have to do                                                               
to violate it.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:38:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SPOHNHOLZ  asked whether the government  cause of action                                                               
is the structure  that the Division of Insurance  uses to enforce                                                               
compliance.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. WING-HEIER answered  that the Division of  Insurance looks at                                                               
both  civil  and  criminal,  and when  it  becomes  criminal  the                                                               
division works with the attorney  general.  She said the division                                                               
has authority under Alaska statutes  to remedy civil infractions,                                                               
fine  penalties,  and assess  the  damages.   Then,  whoever  has                                                               
caused the bad deed would pay  the money to the division to cover                                                               
the  general  fund  and  the   division  enters  into  stipulated                                                               
agreements as such.  If  it becomes criminal, the division refers                                                               
it over  for resolution to  either the federal government  or the                                                               
state government depending on what the crime is.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SPOHNHOLZ  surmised that keeping direct  care agreements                                                               
under  Title  21  would  give   the  public  additional  possible                                                               
protection against  potential unfair  practices as it  is related                                                               
to direct  care agreements  than if  direct care  agreements were                                                               
moved into a different section of law.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. WING-HEIER replied that that is the division's belief.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:39:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SNYDER  remarked that  during the  bill's previous                                                               
hearing she felt  enthusiastic about some of the  things it could                                                               
achieve.  She inquired about  the mechanism of this model whereby                                                               
it reduces health care cost.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:40:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CRYSTAL  KOENEMAN, Staff,  Representative Sara  Rasmussen, Alaska                                                               
State Legislature,  on behalf of Representative  Rasmussen, prime                                                               
sponsor of HB  176, replied that one way this  has a potential to                                                               
lower  health  care costs  is  by  utilizing better  preventative                                                               
care.  If  an individual and family members have  access to their                                                               
provider, it sets up  a way for them to see  the doctor when they                                                               
may not necessarily go for cost  reasons or other reasons.  Doing                                                               
this and  ensuring better preventative  care provides  the option                                                               
of  finding  any  issues  within   that  individual  before  they                                                               
escalate to higher cost of care.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SNYDER  expressed  her  concern  that  [a  direct                                                               
primary care  agreement] could be  utilized as an  "express pass"                                                               
whereby a  person is able  to jump the  line.  She  asked whether                                                               
the sponsor has considered this and  whether ways can be built to                                                               
prevent that from being the primary application of this option.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. KOENEMAN deferred to Dr. Gross to provide an answer.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:43:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LEE S. GROSS,  MD, Epiphany Health Direct  Primary Care, answered                                                               
questions during  the hearing on HB  176.  He first  related that                                                               
since 2002  he has  been in  private practice  as a  primary care                                                               
physician in southwest  Florida.  In 2010 he  transitioned to one                                                               
of the  first direct primary care  (DPC) practices in the  US, so                                                               
his  is probably  one of  the longest  practicing direct  primary                                                               
care  practices in  the  nation.   Regarding  how [his  practice]                                                               
saves  cost, Dr.  Gross stated  that much  of primary  care in  a                                                               
traditional practice  is on a fee-for-service  (FFS) basis, which                                                               
is designed  to drive  up charges and  generate as  much billable                                                               
revenue from  the patient or  the patient's insurance  company as                                                               
possible.   It is designed  to serve the intermittent  sick care.                                                               
However,  a direct  primary care  practice is  more a  whole-body                                                               
health care that also focuses on  getting out in front of disease                                                               
and prevention.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
DR.  GROSS explained  that in  traditional practice  it may  take                                                               
three minutes to write a  prescription for someone with diabetes.                                                               
[In direct primary  care] it will take 30 minutes  to educate the                                                               
patient how  not to  need a prescription  for diabetes,  which is                                                               
included  at no  additional  cost,  so downstream  complications,                                                               
downstream medications,  and unnecessary hospitalizations  can be                                                               
prevented.  A primary care  practitioner is spending less time on                                                               
the  administrative  burden  of  the practice,  which  gives  the                                                               
practitioner much  more clinical  time to  focus on  and interact                                                               
with the patient.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
DR.  GROSS reviewed  a case  study that  began in  2019 in  which                                                               
direct primary care  was integrated as an option  for an employee                                                               
health  plan  for DeSoto  Memorial  Hospital  in rural  southwest                                                               
Florida.   The hospital itself  had a self-funded  insurance plan                                                               
and  gave its  employees  an option  to sign  up  for the  direct                                                               
primary care.   The employees  who signed up  had it paid  for by                                                               
the hospital  but still  could keep  their traditional  option of                                                               
going to their  fee-for-service doctor.  One year  later in 2020,                                                               
he reported, the  direct primary care practices  were compared to                                                               
the  non-direct  primary care  practices  and  the following  was                                                               
seen:   a  48 percent  reduction  in all  money paid  for by  the                                                               
health clinic; a 45 percent  reduction in all out-of-pocket costs                                                               
by  the  patient,  which   included  co-pays,  co-insurance,  and                                                               
deductibles; a 52 percent reduction  in emergency room visits due                                                               
to the means  of access; and a 57 percent  reduction in specialty                                                               
cost  spend.   Despite the  primary  care being  pre-paid in  the                                                               
direct primary  care model, there  was a 25 percent  reduction in                                                               
primary care  spend because the  goals of the practice  were much                                                               
better.   Dr.  Gross further  reported that  over the  past three                                                               
years  the case  study results  show that  a direct  primary care                                                               
practice  managed  diabetes at  72  cents  per member  per  month                                                               
compared to a national average  of $4.04, an 82 percent reduction                                                               
in health  clinic cost.   He noted that DeSoto  Memorial Hospital                                                               
has 49 beds and  is in the second poorest county  in the state of                                                               
Florida.    In  2019,  the Rural  Accountable  Care  Organization                                                               
generated  $64 per  beneficiary savings  and in  2019 the  DeSoto                                                               
Memorial Hospital plan generated $2,420 per beneficiary savings.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:47:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SNYDER stated  that as  a public  health official                                                               
she is  a fan  of preventative  health care and  its value.   She                                                               
observed that the sponsor statement  focuses on being able to get                                                               
in  quicker, perhaps  the  next day  or  so.   She  said this  is                                                               
wonderful if  it doesn't come  at the  expense of others  who may                                                               
have fewer  resources.   She asked what  sidebars have  been used                                                               
elsewhere to prevent that [from happening].                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DR. GROSS replied that the  direct primary care practice model is                                                               
designed  for efficiency,  so by  nature DPC  patients will  have                                                               
faster  access than  traditional practice.   He  noted that  [his                                                               
clinic] has  had telemedicine  at no  additional cost,  so during                                                               
the pandemic  while probably  40 percent  of practices  were near                                                               
insolvency because  of the challenges  of COVID-19,  [his clinic]                                                               
converted  to parking  lot practices  on  day one  and did  house                                                               
calls, so  [his clinic] was  a more  efficient model.   He stated                                                               
that people who  are participating will get  more efficient care.                                                               
Perhaps it is true, he continued,  that people will come to these                                                               
practices specifically  to have improved efficiency  and improved                                                               
access, but  better outcomes will  be seen which will  drive more                                                               
direct primary care growth which  will ultimately transition into                                                               
practice.  All the practices will  be better because of the drive                                                               
of  the  market   forces  of  direct  primary   care  making  the                                                               
traditional practices more efficient.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:49:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FIELDS   offered  his   understanding  that   there  is                                                               
generally a flat  fee per month or per year  for a certain amount                                                               
of services.  He asked whether  there are DPC practices that have                                                               
differentiated fees where higher fees  get a person in quicker or                                                               
whether there is just a level fee for a given amount of service.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
DR.  GROSS  responded he  is  unaware  of practices  that  charge                                                               
additional fees for moving to the front  of the line.  He said it                                                               
is  a challenge  to discern  between a  concierge practice  and a                                                               
direct  primary   care  practice.    A   concierge  practice,  he                                                               
explained, specifically  charges an  access fee that  gets people                                                               
front-of-the-line service, and then also  bills a third party for                                                               
services  provided  on  a fee-for-service  basis.    A  concierge                                                               
practice  is  a different  model  than  the direct  primary  care                                                               
bundle  service model  which has  no additional  fee.   If direct                                                               
primary care practices tier their  membership fees, it is usually                                                               
based upon age, not upon insurance status or health conditions.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS.  KOENEMAN added  that  another facet  of  direct health  care                                                               
agreements  that  may be  seen  is  additional doctors  who  have                                                               
either recently  retired or  are about  to retire  starting their                                                               
own practice or moving into  another avenue to provide this care.                                                               
Because  there   is  less  overhead,  doctors   are  working  for                                                               
themselves  versus working  for,  say, a  hospital.   Instead  of                                                               
these doctors leaving  the field entirely, this  would provide an                                                               
additional  avenue  for them  to  still  provide health  care  to                                                               
others.    So, it  may  ultimately  keep  more providers  on  the                                                               
market, thereby  reducing an individual's overall  wait times for                                                               
traditional methods as well as this model.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:52:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FIELDS  asked whether  Ms. Wing-Heier's  suggestions for                                                               
consumer protections in  HB 176 are reflected in what  is seen in                                                               
other states.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
DR. GROSS  confirmed that similar consumer  protections have been                                                               
included  in   the  bills  passed   by  other  states,   such  as                                                               
highlighting very  clearly what is  included in the  contract and                                                               
what is  not included in  the contract, specific  exclusions, and                                                               
whether  there  are  additional charges  for  services  that  are                                                               
outside the defined scope of  services and what those charges are                                                               
going to be.   Those are included in his  contracts, he noted, as                                                               
well as in any other contracts he has seen.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:53:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SPOHNHOLZ  recalled Dr.  Gross stating that  direct care                                                               
agreement practices do not tier  cost based on priority but based                                                               
on age.  She asked how this typically works.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DR. GROSS  answered that every  practice is different but  at his                                                               
practice the fee  for adults up to  age 64 is $80  per month, the                                                               
first child  is $30 per month,  and each additional child  is $15                                                               
per month.  At age 65 the  price for adults increases to $100 per                                                               
month.  It is not a tier  based upon health status, so a 68-year-                                                               
old diabetic  with hypertension and  heart disease would  pay the                                                               
same price as a 68-year-old who is on no medications.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SPOHNHOLZ  asked  Ms. Wing-Heier  whether  Dr.  Gross's                                                               
description of pricing is consistent  with the way that insurance                                                               
pricing operates.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS.  WING-HEIER  replied that  that's  exactly  how insurance  is                                                               
priced.  She offered to provide  the committee with the rates for                                                               
the individual  market in which  it would  be seen that  the rate                                                               
for a  21-year-old might be $250  a month whereas the  rate for a                                                               
64-year-old might be close to $800 a month.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SPOHNHOLZ confirmed that she  pays more as a 49-year-old                                                               
than she did as a 21-year-old.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:55:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAUFMAN  observed that  beginning on page  3, line                                                               
24 of  the bill, it  states, "Before terminating a  direct health                                                               
care agreement with  an existing patient, a  health care provider                                                               
shall ensure  that the  patient is transferred  to a  health care                                                               
provider who" provides the services  that are subsequently listed                                                               
thereafter in  the bill.   He  asked whether  this is  typical in                                                               
other forms of  health care because this did not  happen when his                                                               
own physician retired.  He  further asked about the background on                                                               
why this provision is included and  if it is different, why it is                                                               
different relative to other forms of health care.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. KOENEMAN  responded that [the  sponsor] wanted  this language                                                               
in  the bill  for additional  protections for  the patient.   She                                                               
related  a personal  anecdote in  which her  general practitioner                                                               
referred her  to a rheumatologist  and a neurologist  for medical                                                               
care.    Specialized  medicine, she  explained,  isn't  typically                                                               
covered under  direct health care  agreements, and  [the sponsor]                                                               
wanted to ensure that the level  of care that was provided to the                                                               
patient was  consistent with  what the  patient needs  to happen.                                                               
By  putting in  this language  the provider  cannot say,  "Sorry,                                                               
it's  not in  our  contract, I  can't help  you,"  and leave  the                                                               
patient  out in  the cold.   The  sponsor wanted  to ensure  that                                                               
there is a mechanism in place where,  if a doctor is not with the                                                               
specialty, that  doctor does  work with  that patient  to provide                                                               
the care that the patient needs.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KAUFMAN  stated  that   it  sounds  like  a  good                                                               
motivation, but asked whether this  might discourage someone from                                                               
engaging in  this type of contract  if there is a  high burden of                                                               
getting out of it as the practitioner.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. KOENEMAN answered that it  is optional whether a practitioner                                                               
wants  to  participate in  these  health  care agreements.    She                                                               
deferred to Dr. Gross to provide his experience in this regard.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FIELDS invited Dr. Gross to provide comment.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
DR. GROSS qualified  that he is not attempting  to criticize this                                                               
very good bill  but allowed that the provision does  stand out to                                                               
him because of the concrete nature  of the language.  He said the                                                               
burden  of ensuring  that the  patient is  handed off  to another                                                               
provider before discontinuing  the doctor-patient relationship is                                                               
probably higher than the requirement  that would be placed on any                                                               
other practice within  the country.  For discontinuing  care of a                                                               
patient there are  usually standards within the  state for giving                                                               
ample notice,  such as a 15-  or 30-day notice.   That notice can                                                               
sometimes  be shorter  if there  is  an issue  or if  there is  a                                                               
threat to staff safety by the  patient.  Some states have broader                                                               
language  that still  has the  patient protections  but also  has                                                               
some safety nets for standard of  care within the state or within                                                               
the community for discharging patients from care.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FIELDS invited Ms. Wing-Heier to provide comment.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS.  WING-HEIR responded  that the  only thing  to which  she can                                                               
relate  this is  the recently  passed federal  law called  the No                                                               
Surprises Act.   The Act,  she explained, provides that  if there                                                               
is  a  change  in  insurer  by the  insurance  company,  the  new                                                               
insurance company must allow the same  kind of care with the same                                                               
provider, which is  called continuity of care.   For example, she                                                               
said, if  she goes from  Aetna to Premera  and her new  doctor is                                                               
not in-network,  the care to  her must  still be continued.   She                                                               
said she  thinks that that is  what this provision is  doing   it                                                               
is saying there will still be the  same kind of care, but it will                                                               
be a different physician.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAUFMAN stated  he sees the intent  but wonders if                                                               
it will put a damper on the marketplace.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:00:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   MCCARTY  surmised   there  is   no  preferential                                                               
treatment  in scheduling  [between those  who do  and don't  have                                                               
this  type of  service].   He  asked whether  in  an agreement  a                                                               
doctor is  agreeing to  a certain  length of  time when  a person                                                               
comes in.  For example,  traditional practices bill to a specific                                                               
[current procedural terminology (CPT) code]  that is based on the                                                               
length of time spent with the  patient.  He further asked whether                                                               
there are any  boundaries to ensure that the person  will be seen                                                               
[long enough] for effective care.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
DR. GROSS answered that direct  primary care practices don't bill                                                               
based upon  time, but  rather upon  fixed increments  and bundled                                                               
services.   Therefore,  the distinction  between a  time code  of                                                               
99211 versus 99215  is a language that is not  spoken in a direct                                                               
primary care practice.   The patient gets as much,  or as little,                                                               
time  as  needed  to  handle  the problem  and  can  come  in  as                                                               
frequently as  needed to address  an issue at no  additional cost                                                               
or charge.   He related that in his practice  a new patient visit                                                               
is an  hour long  and each follow  up is 30  minutes long.   Some                                                               
people want 30 minutes, he noted, and  some want to be in and out                                                               
in five.   A person  with an arm  laceration can come  right over                                                               
and he will treat the laceration  but the billable to the patient                                                               
doesn't change  based upon the level  of care.  He  allowed it is                                                               
possible to have a certain  individual patient's needs exceed the                                                               
time  that  the practitioner  has  for  that  day.   However,  he                                                               
explained, the  flexibility within the practice  model allows for                                                               
addressing it  on subsequent  visits at  no additional  charge or                                                               
co-pays, so  the patient is  more likely to more  efficiently and                                                               
more cost effectively get an issue resolved.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. WING-HEIER pointed  out that under these  agreements there is                                                               
no billing.   The patient is paying a fee  like a gym membership.                                                               
There is no  bill unless it goes outside what  the contract says,                                                               
and then it  would bill insurance and that is  when the CPT codes                                                               
would come in.  There shouldn't  be a separate charge for more or                                                               
less time because it is all covered within the agreement.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:04:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MCCARTY clarified that  the intent of his question                                                               
was not about the CPT code,  but about the expectation of service                                                               
that  is  received.   He  posed  a  scenario  of buying  into  an                                                               
agreement for $80  per month, and asked whether  the doctor could                                                               
see  him "quick  and  dirty" rather  than  spending the  expected                                                               
amount of time with him.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. WING-HEIER offered her understanding  that that is covered in                                                               
the contract.  If the  practice says the patient's appointment is                                                               
going  to be  an hour  or will  give the  patient up  to an  hour                                                               
without  billing  the  patient's   insurance  company,  then  the                                                               
Division  of Insurance  would expect  that the  patient would  be                                                               
given an hour to talk to the  doctor, or a half hour, or whatever                                                               
the contract stipulates.  That is  what should be received as the                                                               
service for the direct health care agreement.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MCCARTY  surmised the  news would  get out  when a                                                               
practitioner is seeing  lots of people and getting  lots of money                                                               
up  front but  is not  a very  good provider.   He  asked whether                                                               
there are provisions so that those  people could get out of their                                                               
contracts sooner because the service was not being rendered.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  WING-HEIER replied  that  that comes  back  to the  consumer                                                               
protections built in.   If a consumer has a  contract that states                                                               
two visits a month of at  least 30 minutes each, and the consumer                                                               
comes to  the division saying  he or she cannot  get appointments                                                               
or  the provider  is only  spending 10  minutes per  appointment,                                                               
then "we've got a consumer complaint."                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:06:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SPOHNHOLZ  stipulated that this  is why it  is important                                                               
to have  good consumer protection  and enforcement  mechanisms in                                                               
place.   It  must be  ensured  that it  is known  what the  whole                                                               
regulatory  framework for  insurance  is,  that all  stakeholders                                                               
involved are  made whole, and  that there is clarity  about roles                                                               
and  responsibilities  and the  enforcement  mechanisms.   A  new                                                               
framework in the state of Alaska  is being created.  She inquired                                                               
about how  to ensure that  patients know  what they need  and are                                                               
buying  a  product  that  meets   their  needs  when  entering  a                                                               
contract.   She  posed  a  scenario in  which  a person  develops                                                               
diabetes and  that the current  fee-for-service model  allows for                                                               
service growth  as is needed along  the way.  She  asked how this                                                               
would  work  under a  direct  care  agreement  to ensure  that  a                                                               
patient's needs are met in the direct care model.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
DR. GROSS  responded that the  most unique aspect of  direct care                                                               
is  the direct  relationship.   There  is not  typically a  third                                                               
party paying  that bill,  he said,  so the  doctor must  look the                                                               
patient in the  eye and directly justify the value  of his or her                                                               
services.  It's the purest  and most ethical relationship that if                                                               
the  patient does  not feel  like the  doctor is  giving adequate                                                               
time and  counsel the patient  can cancel.   As a  business owner                                                               
himself, he  related, it is  far more cost effective  to maintain                                                               
an  existing patient  and  keep that  patient  satisfied than  to                                                               
recruit a new patient from scratch.   He has a built-in incentive                                                               
to make  sure the patient's  needs are  met because he  wants the                                                               
patient to renew his or her membership, not cancel it.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. WING-HEIER  agreed with  Dr. Gross that  the patient  has the                                                               
right to cancel,  and that is one of the  provisions the division                                                               
wants to  ensure is  in the  bill and  that there  is not  a huge                                                               
termination fee.  She posed  a scenario in which someone's health                                                               
care  insurance  doesn't start  until  January  and has  a  large                                                               
deductible, so the  consumer offsets the cost  of that deductible                                                               
by purchasing  a direct health care  plan.  If come  February the                                                               
direct  health care  plan is  not working  for the  consumer, the                                                               
consumer should not  have to pay the entire  12-month premium but                                                               
rather  the  one  month  that  the  consumer  used  it,  and  any                                                               
outstanding  charges that  should have  been billed  to insurance                                                               
should still  be billed to insurance.   The consumer can  then go                                                               
to another provider that suits the consumer's needs.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:10:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FIELDS  asked why HB  176 is  necessary from a  legal or                                                               
regulatory  perspective  and   whether  providers  could  provide                                                               
direct care under direct care agreements now.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. WING-HEIER  answered that right now  providers cannot provide                                                               
this type  of agreement.   These agreements, she  explained, fall                                                               
right within the  definition of what a health care  insurer is or                                                               
a health maintenance  organization (HMO).  An  upfront premium is                                                               
being taken to  direct health care and [the  consumer] should get                                                               
something in  return for that  premium, the consumer  should know                                                               
that the  insurance company  is going  to pay  his or  her doctor                                                               
bills, and in these agreements  the consumer should know that the                                                               
provider is  going to provide  the care.   They are viewed  as an                                                               
insurance policy, yet nowhere in  Alaska law are they registering                                                               
or  going through  the hoops  that are  expected of  an insurance                                                               
company, and [the  division] is not asking them to,  nor does she                                                               
think  they  should   have  to,  much  like   the  air  ambulance                                                               
memberships.   There is  a reason for  provisions to  protect the                                                               
consumer, but  they are  not going to  go through  what insurance                                                               
companies do.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FIELDS,  in terms of  consumer protections  and consumer                                                               
expectations, asked whether other  states have guidelines on what                                                               
type  of  provider  the  consumer  is  seeing,  such  as  an  MD,                                                               
physician's assistant (PA), or nurse practitioner (NP).                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. WING-HEIER deferred to Dr. Gross to answer the question.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DR. GROSS  replied that that is  mostly defined by the  state law                                                               
that defines the  scope of practice for  an individual provider's                                                               
license.   The expectation  is that  a physician  assistant would                                                               
practice within the scope of  practice that is outlined by Alaska                                                               
law for physician assistant, and so on.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:12:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KAUFMAN inquired  about the  intersection between                                                               
this  health care  service and  what  is outside  of the  service                                                               
through insurance,  as per page  1 of HB  176.  He  asked whether                                                               
there  have been  any challenges  with getting  that intersection                                                               
defined well and not having complaints around that area.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
DR.  GROSS responded  that there  is not  a tremendous  amount of                                                               
direct interaction  between the direct primary  care practice and                                                               
the insurance per  se because the practice is  not filing claims.                                                               
However, the practice still interacts  with the insurance company                                                               
for services outside  of its office, he explained.   For example,                                                               
if  the patient  needs to  see a  cardiologist the  practice will                                                               
work through the protocols of  the insurance company to make sure                                                               
that  the  patient  sees  an in-network  cardiologist.    If  the                                                               
patient needs  to have some  imaging services that  require prior                                                               
authorization from the insurance  company then the direct primary                                                               
care practices usually work through  the process of the insurance                                                               
company's protocols, even though they  are out of network, to get                                                               
those services approved.  For  prescription medications that fall                                                               
outside  of the  formulary  requirements, the  practices will  go                                                               
through the process of getting those services approved.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
DR. GROSS  added that the biggest  issue he has seen  between the                                                               
direct care  practice and an  insurance is when an  HMO insurance                                                               
requires that referrals from the  primary come from an in-network                                                               
primary care  provider, in  which case the  patient will  have to                                                               
establish with  an in-network primary to  secure those referrals.                                                               
He  said Maine  tackled that  issue by  passing legislation  that                                                               
says  if  an out-of-network  primary  is  willing to  follow  the                                                               
protocols  and practices  of the  insurance  company through  the                                                               
referral process  and in referring  [a patient] to  an in-network                                                               
provider then  the insurance company  would honor  that referral.                                                               
In his  experience, most insurance  companies find it  quite nice                                                               
that they are  not filing claims and processing  claims for every                                                               
single interaction with the health care system.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAUFMAN  offered his understanding, then,  that it                                                               
is  not  so  much  in-house  but more  of  interfacing  with  the                                                               
specialties externally.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
DR. GROSS answered  that that has been his experience  and he has                                                               
not heard any other stories to the contrary.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:16:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MCCARTY  posed  a  scenario  in  which  a  direct                                                               
primary care provider's schedule  includes some patients that are                                                               
direct care  agreements and some  that are coming in  under their                                                               
insurance and both are getting the same type of service.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
DR. GROSS  clarified that  direct primary  care practices  do not                                                               
have  distinguished classes  of  patients where  direct care  and                                                               
insurance  patients  are seen;  they  are  typically one  or  the                                                               
other.   For example,  he said,  his practice  does not  have any                                                               
commercial insurance  contracts whatsoever.  Patients  wanting to                                                               
come to his practice enter into  a direct care agreement with his                                                               
practice and  his practice does  not have a direct  contract with                                                               
an insurance provider for any patients.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
[HB 176 was held over.]                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HB 176 v. A.PDF HL&C 3/23/2022 3:15:00 PM
HB 176
HB 176 Sponsor Statement.pdf HL&C 3/23/2022 3:15:00 PM
HB 176
HB 176 Sectional Analysis.pdf HL&C 3/23/2022 3:15:00 PM
HB 176
HB 176 Supporting Document - Direct Primary Care.pdf HL&C 3/23/2022 3:15:00 PM
HB 176
HB 176 Presentation - Direct Primary Care Coaltion 5.6.21.pdf HL&C 3/23/2022 3:15:00 PM
HB 176
HB 176 Letter of Support - AK Policy Forum, 5.7.21.pdf HL&C 3/23/2022 3:15:00 PM
HB 176
HB 176 Letters of Support Received as of 5.3.21.pdf HL&C 3/23/2022 3:15:00 PM
HB 176